WATER-RELATED DEATH INVESTIGATIONS, BAIL FOR MURDER, HERE COMES THE JUDGE, AND RESEARCHING THE NEWS - 025
TRANSCRIPT:
This week on The Writer's Detective Bureau: water related deaths, bail for murder, here comes the judge, and researching the news. I'm Adam Richardson, and this is the Writer's Detective Bureau.
This is episode number 25 of The Writer's Detective Bureau, the podcast dedicated to helping authors and screenwriters write professional quality crime related fiction. If you have your own author business consider joining Patreon. It's free for you and it allows your readers to support you financially through monthly micro-payments. Give your fans a chance to show their support by creating your own Patreon account right now. To learn more visit WritersDetective.com/Patreon. Please join me in thanking the patrons that make this podcast possible, Joan Raymond, Guy Alton, Natasha Bajema, Natalie Barelli, Joe Trent, Siobhan Pope, Leah Cutter, Ryan Kinmil, Richard Phillips, Robin Lyons, Gene Desrochers and Craig Kingsman by visiting the links to their author websites in the show notes, which you can find at WritersDetective.com/25.
This is episode number 25 of The Writer's Detective Bureau, the podcast dedicated to helping authors and screenwriters write professional quality crime related fiction. If you have your own author business consider joining Patreon. It's free for you and it allows your readers to support you financially through monthly micro-payments. Give your fans a chance to show their support by creating your own Patreon account right now. To learn more visit WritersDetective.com/Patreon. Please join me in thanking the patrons that make this podcast possible, Joan Raymond, Guy Alton, Natasha Bajema, Natalie Barelli, Joe Trent, Siobhan Pope, Leah Cutter, Ryan Kinmil, Richard Phillips, Robin Lyons, Gene Desrochers and Craig Kingsman by visiting the links to their author websites in the show notes, which you can find at WritersDetective.com/25.
Speaking of Gene Desrochers, he submits this week's first question. Gene writes, "Hi, Adam. Love the podcast. Succinct and to the point. In my latest novel I'm dealing with time of death in one situation where an older woman drowns in the ocean and is found a week later on the beach. Within how many hours can a not-so state-of-the-art crime lab pinpoint time of death? Minutes, hours, days? She's not been eaten, but she's been nibbled on by smaller fish during this time, and of course on the beach flies and such have gathered. Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Gene."
Gene, first of all, thank you for becoming a patron, and thank you for the question. For starters, I don't know that they would come up with an exact time of death. Knowing that she's been missing and presumed drowned for a week is already a pretty good narrowing down of the time of death window. A week is a long time for a body to be in the water. Now, I say that because from an ecosystem perspective she's a pretty significant food source for everything living in the water, whether, critters big and small are going to start doing their thing pretty quickly. Being on the beach would take less of a toll on the body. I don't think the autopsy would be as focused on the time of death specifically so much as the cause of death, especially if drowning is already the suspected cause. So if they aren't suspecting foul play there's no really need to determine a really specific time of death.
One textbook I'd recommend is "Water-Related Death Investigations," by Armstrong and Erskine, and you can find a link to the Amazon page by going to WritersDetectiveBureau.com/WaterDeath. They have it for sale as well as rent because it's li- literally a collegiate textbook, but Kevin Erskine, the co-author, also wrote a three part series on water death investigations at EvidenceMagazine.com a few years ago. So, I will provide those, the link to that article. It's a three part ... Well, let me start by saying, as a trigger warning, there are some real pictures of bodies that have been pulled from the water and they can be a bit graphic. So if you want to read the article, I will have links in the show notes [THEY ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE], which you can find at WritersDetective.com/25 and you'll find links to all three parts of that series that can give you more in depth information about how water-elated death investigations can really, the results can really be skewed compared to a typical dry-land death investigation.
As a matter of fact, speaking of EvidenceMagazine.com and this three part series, many of you will actually recognize the article and textbook if you're a longtime subscriber to my mailing list. I will admit that since launching the podcast my mailing list has kind of fallen by the wayside, but for 2019 the mailing list will switch to a monthly email packed full of research and story related content that I think you'll find interesting or helpful with your writing. So these kind of links, like the one I just talked about with the water-related death investigation, that's the kind of research and story content idea link stuff that I provide through the mailing list. So if you've been following me since 2015 or 2016 or so, you may already have these links to that article and to the book, but for Gene and for everyone that's new to following me, I hope you'll find this useful, and if you're interested in getting more of these kind of research links to real world investigative stuff and story related content definitely sign up for the mailing list.
I'm in the process of bringing on a virtual assistant, which is going to free up a lot of time for me, so I will get those APB emails. So the APB, All Points Bulletin, is what I call my mailing list, so I'll be getting those emails, APB emails out each month. I used to do it weekly, where I would provide three bullet points. The weekly work has kind of transitioned into the podcast, so I'm going to do a monthly email, but it's going to be much more packed with content each month than the APB emails have been previously. So to join the mailing list you can just go to WritersDetective.com and then enter your email address in the banner at the top of the screen.
So thank you for your question Gene, and you can find Gene's work at GeneDesrochers.com, and you can find a link to his website for the spelling in the show notes.
Gene, first of all, thank you for becoming a patron, and thank you for the question. For starters, I don't know that they would come up with an exact time of death. Knowing that she's been missing and presumed drowned for a week is already a pretty good narrowing down of the time of death window. A week is a long time for a body to be in the water. Now, I say that because from an ecosystem perspective she's a pretty significant food source for everything living in the water, whether, critters big and small are going to start doing their thing pretty quickly. Being on the beach would take less of a toll on the body. I don't think the autopsy would be as focused on the time of death specifically so much as the cause of death, especially if drowning is already the suspected cause. So if they aren't suspecting foul play there's no really need to determine a really specific time of death.
One textbook I'd recommend is "Water-Related Death Investigations," by Armstrong and Erskine, and you can find a link to the Amazon page by going to WritersDetectiveBureau.com/WaterDeath. They have it for sale as well as rent because it's li- literally a collegiate textbook, but Kevin Erskine, the co-author, also wrote a three part series on water death investigations at EvidenceMagazine.com a few years ago. So, I will provide those, the link to that article. It's a three part ... Well, let me start by saying, as a trigger warning, there are some real pictures of bodies that have been pulled from the water and they can be a bit graphic. So if you want to read the article, I will have links in the show notes [THEY ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE], which you can find at WritersDetective.com/25 and you'll find links to all three parts of that series that can give you more in depth information about how water-elated death investigations can really, the results can really be skewed compared to a typical dry-land death investigation.
As a matter of fact, speaking of EvidenceMagazine.com and this three part series, many of you will actually recognize the article and textbook if you're a longtime subscriber to my mailing list. I will admit that since launching the podcast my mailing list has kind of fallen by the wayside, but for 2019 the mailing list will switch to a monthly email packed full of research and story related content that I think you'll find interesting or helpful with your writing. So these kind of links, like the one I just talked about with the water-related death investigation, that's the kind of research and story content idea link stuff that I provide through the mailing list. So if you've been following me since 2015 or 2016 or so, you may already have these links to that article and to the book, but for Gene and for everyone that's new to following me, I hope you'll find this useful, and if you're interested in getting more of these kind of research links to real world investigative stuff and story related content definitely sign up for the mailing list.
I'm in the process of bringing on a virtual assistant, which is going to free up a lot of time for me, so I will get those APB emails. So the APB, All Points Bulletin, is what I call my mailing list, so I'll be getting those emails, APB emails out each month. I used to do it weekly, where I would provide three bullet points. The weekly work has kind of transitioned into the podcast, so I'm going to do a monthly email, but it's going to be much more packed with content each month than the APB emails have been previously. So to join the mailing list you can just go to WritersDetective.com and then enter your email address in the banner at the top of the screen.
So thank you for your question Gene, and you can find Gene's work at GeneDesrochers.com, and you can find a link to his website for the spelling in the show notes.
Speaking of podcast listeners / mailing list subscribers, Maggie Smith, and you can find her work at MaggieSmithWriter.com, Maggie wanted to know more about being out on bail for murder after listening to one of our previous podcast episodes. So I wanted to share with you a little more insight and some more research suggestions regarding that, since I've already talked about the topic before, but I wanted to give a little more info.
So in the real world we obviously want murderers off the street, right? But there are times and there are circumstances where murderers are granted bail. So the bail amount may be quite high to be commensurate with the severity of the crime, so if you want your murder suspect out on bail after his or her arrest, I suggest looking at two things for you to bake into your story. First, look at the bail schedule for the county that your story is set in. Obviously, right now I'm talking about the legal system in the United States, but I encourage you to research the real-life bail systems wherever in the world you or your story is taking place, because knowing is half the battle. So, some states allow you to use your real property as collateral, other states do not. Some states require only cash or a cash bond, but there are some states where you can use real estate as collateral for this. So if your bail is $300,000 for a murder charge, you may be able to use the $300,000 in equity in your home to secure that bail.
But next, I'd research news stories about murderers being granted bail and then look at the circumstances and the specific charges of that case. Is the defendant making a self defense claim? Are they otherwise an upstanding member of the community? Do they have ties to the community that reduce the likelihood that they'll flee? What crimes are being alleged? These are all the things that the judge is going to look at. So a prosecution for multiple charges of first degree murder with a gang enhancement is a much different case than a second degree murder of a spouse that has a history of being violent. A judge is far more likely to grant bail to the woman that killed her abusive husband compared to a street gang hit man. So find those news stories and then mentally role play as the judge in that case. What facts in the case would make you comfortable setting a bail amount of the defendant, whether that's your protagonist or your antagonist, rather than keeping them locked up?
So in the real world we obviously want murderers off the street, right? But there are times and there are circumstances where murderers are granted bail. So the bail amount may be quite high to be commensurate with the severity of the crime, so if you want your murder suspect out on bail after his or her arrest, I suggest looking at two things for you to bake into your story. First, look at the bail schedule for the county that your story is set in. Obviously, right now I'm talking about the legal system in the United States, but I encourage you to research the real-life bail systems wherever in the world you or your story is taking place, because knowing is half the battle. So, some states allow you to use your real property as collateral, other states do not. Some states require only cash or a cash bond, but there are some states where you can use real estate as collateral for this. So if your bail is $300,000 for a murder charge, you may be able to use the $300,000 in equity in your home to secure that bail.
But next, I'd research news stories about murderers being granted bail and then look at the circumstances and the specific charges of that case. Is the defendant making a self defense claim? Are they otherwise an upstanding member of the community? Do they have ties to the community that reduce the likelihood that they'll flee? What crimes are being alleged? These are all the things that the judge is going to look at. So a prosecution for multiple charges of first degree murder with a gang enhancement is a much different case than a second degree murder of a spouse that has a history of being violent. A judge is far more likely to grant bail to the woman that killed her abusive husband compared to a street gang hit man. So find those news stories and then mentally role play as the judge in that case. What facts in the case would make you comfortable setting a bail amount of the defendant, whether that's your protagonist or your antagonist, rather than keeping them locked up?
Speaking of role playing as the judge, one of the tactics I often use during an interview or interrogation with a suspect is asking him to pretend he's the judge presiding over his own case. So as a detective I'm limited in what I can say in these interviews. I can't promise things and I can't say things that aren't true, so if I use the phrase "The truth will set you free," we've all heard that, but I can get in big trouble on the stand when a defense attorney construes that little phrase of "the truth will set you free," to mean that I was offering immunity and that was why the guy confessed or gave an admission. So would the bad guy really get immunity because I said those words? Of course not. But it might be enough for a judge to toss out the admission or the confession that the suspect gave after I said that, because the bad guy thought he was going to go free. See what I mean?
So one of the tactics I use is getting the suspect to view his own case from the judge's perspective. So I'll ask him "Hey man, if you were the judge in this case how would you treat someone that came to you and said, 'I'm sorry, Your Honor, I made a big mistake. I did this and I want to be honest about what happened. I told the detective the truth about what happened, and I just want to pay my debt to society and make sure nothing like this ever happens again.' Or do you want to be the guy that's all 'Talk to my lawyer,' and 'You can't prove shit?' Who would you rather have before you if you were the judge? Which guy is going to be the one you respect more and want to succeed in life? Which guy is the one you're going to throw the book at? So which one are you going to be? Why don't you start doing the right thing and tell me what happened?" Using that kind of reasoning I'm not going to get myself in trouble with promising something I can't, but when I pitch it that way, hopefully he will start to figure it out, and start talking, and realize by being the judge that the judge will more likely take into account the atonement and coming clean about things rather than the guy that says "You can't touch me."
So one of the tactics I use is getting the suspect to view his own case from the judge's perspective. So I'll ask him "Hey man, if you were the judge in this case how would you treat someone that came to you and said, 'I'm sorry, Your Honor, I made a big mistake. I did this and I want to be honest about what happened. I told the detective the truth about what happened, and I just want to pay my debt to society and make sure nothing like this ever happens again.' Or do you want to be the guy that's all 'Talk to my lawyer,' and 'You can't prove shit?' Who would you rather have before you if you were the judge? Which guy is going to be the one you respect more and want to succeed in life? Which guy is the one you're going to throw the book at? So which one are you going to be? Why don't you start doing the right thing and tell me what happened?" Using that kind of reasoning I'm not going to get myself in trouble with promising something I can't, but when I pitch it that way, hopefully he will start to figure it out, and start talking, and realize by being the judge that the judge will more likely take into account the atonement and coming clean about things rather than the guy that says "You can't touch me."
Finally this week, regardless of whether we're talking about bail or murder, researching news articles for the circumstances similar to the story you are creating should become a top researching technique for you. A perfect example is a question that I answered on the very first episode of this podcast. So to quickly flashback, Gary T McDonald at GaryTMcDonald.com asked about a body being found at a national park in San Bernardino, California, but the murder happened in Santa Monica, California, and he asked who would have jurisdiction in the case? So without rehashing my full answer, you can find it in episode one, I think it was the third question, but I basically said that it would be San Bernardino Sheriff's Department and their Coroner initially, and then Santa Monica PD would take it once they figured out the murder actually occurred in Santa Monica, and I also added that the National Parks Police might get involved somehow.
So, to use the research technique that I'm talking about of searching news articles for a similar story or similar circumstances to a story I typed "murder in national park" into Google, and then hit the news button to restrict my search to news articles. Well, lo-and-behold, I found an article in the Desert Sun newspaper from the Palm Springs area that was actually published today, and I'll add a link to this in the show notes at WritersDetective.com/25, but in short,National Parks Police responded to a report of vultures circling in an area in Joshua Tree National Park. They found a half buried body and called Riverside Sheriff's Department to investigate the murder, and Riverside County Coroner conducted the death investigation. They ultimately determined the murder occurred in the city of Murrieta, California, so the Murrieta Police Department took over the murder investigation. Ultimately, the suspects were arrested as part of a wire-tap investigation, but the court case is still pending as of right now. So just like the scenario Gary posed in episode one, I was able to find a great example in the news that gives a rundown of how these cases happen in real life.
Now, I of course am here to happily answer your questions, but I wanted to share this with you as a research tactic for you to use with your own stories, because it totally works.
So, to use the research technique that I'm talking about of searching news articles for a similar story or similar circumstances to a story I typed "murder in national park" into Google, and then hit the news button to restrict my search to news articles. Well, lo-and-behold, I found an article in the Desert Sun newspaper from the Palm Springs area that was actually published today, and I'll add a link to this in the show notes at WritersDetective.com/25, but in short,National Parks Police responded to a report of vultures circling in an area in Joshua Tree National Park. They found a half buried body and called Riverside Sheriff's Department to investigate the murder, and Riverside County Coroner conducted the death investigation. They ultimately determined the murder occurred in the city of Murrieta, California, so the Murrieta Police Department took over the murder investigation. Ultimately, the suspects were arrested as part of a wire-tap investigation, but the court case is still pending as of right now. So just like the scenario Gary posed in episode one, I was able to find a great example in the news that gives a rundown of how these cases happen in real life.
Now, I of course am here to happily answer your questions, but I wanted to share this with you as a research tactic for you to use with your own stories, because it totally works.
So thank you so much for listening this week. Just a reminder, the Writer's Detective coffee mugs are now available for sale. You can go to WritersDetectiveBureau.com/mug to make that happen, and then, also make sure you get on the APB mailing list. Go to WritersDetective.com and just put in your email address at the very top and you will be subscribed to the mailing list and you will get an email every month packed full of great research material.
Thanks again for listening. I will talk to you guys next week. In the meantime, write well.
Thanks again for listening. I will talk to you guys next week. In the meantime, write well.
EPISODE LINKS:
- Author: Gene Desrochers - genedesrochers.com
- Author: Maggie Smith - maggiesmithwriter.com
- Author: Gary T. McDonald - garytmcdonald.com
- Desert Sun Newspaper article - Murder victim found in Joshua Tree National Park
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- Support the Writer's Detective Bureau through Patreon for as little as $2/month.
- Writer's Detective Q&A Facebook Group - Join us!
- Purchase the Writer's Detective Coffee Mug - writersdetectivebureau.com/mug
PATREON PATRONS THAT MADE THIS EPISODE POSSIBLE
- Joan Raymond Writing and Design - joanraymondwriting.com
- Guy Alton
- Anonymous (you may not want your name shown, but I truly appreciate your support!)
- Natasha Bajema - natashabajema.com
- Natalie Barelli - nataliebarelli.com
- Joe Trent
- Siobhan Pope
- Leah Cutter - leahcutter.com
- Ryan Kinmil - @RKinmil
- Richard Phillips - beltsbatsandbeyond.com
- Robin Lyons - robinlyons.com
- Gene Desrochers - genedesrochers.com
- Craig Kingsman - craigkingsman.com
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